tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post3038498825972847403..comments2024-03-13T03:27:50.582-04:00Comments on Smart Football: The NFL Offense: What is it? Why does every team use it? And how does it differ from college?Chrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07204245083374821812noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-59347889025638599222009-07-21T04:52:56.778-04:002009-07-21T04:52:56.778-04:00Found this site tonight while surfing the web for ...Found this site tonight while surfing the web for articles to read on coach Walsh.<br /><br />By far one of the most informative NFL sites I have ever come across.<br /><br />Great job.Marrdrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15117220269124197395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-31567301696113655212009-07-20T03:02:35.288-04:002009-07-20T03:02:35.288-04:00Pro teams can shape routes and play physically wit...Pro teams can shape routes and play physically with corners, that is what shortens the field. Most college wideouts get a free clean release off the ball so their speed creates great separation<br />.Mr.Murderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01932924875363684259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-91585993149415808202009-07-13T05:33:31.963-04:002009-07-13T05:33:31.963-04:00Will,
McNair played in the SWAC, the worst of the...Will,<br /><br />McNair played in the SWAC, the worst of the I-AA leagues. If you'd ever seen highlights, you'd be ashamed to cite his college stats to support any claim about his professional ability. He often bought time until he got a wide open receiver because of his ability to scramble away from 5-10, 350 lb fatties (holding their pants up as they chugged after him). That hardly makes him a great pro.<br /><br />stanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-35076945357808051712009-07-12T06:45:31.426-04:002009-07-12T06:45:31.426-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Indivisionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08205715455844930815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-14081224050107539282009-07-12T06:45:00.887-04:002009-07-12T06:45:00.887-04:00Great article.
I disagree with the forecast that ...Great article.<br /><br />I disagree with the forecast that the Wildcat will most likely end up in the whacky list for two reasons.<br /><br />One, because I believe it's effectiveness is established and will always be useful under the right circumstances. Some whacky ideas have antidotes where known adjustments greatly diminish the advantages. To my observation, the adjustments against a quality spread to run do not render it less effective than defending more "traditional pro" style offenses. Therefore, the spread to run is a legitimate option that offers an alternative way to make use of the players a team has. With the right players, it can be quite effective.<br /><br />Two, because getting the ball to play-makers in space is great for highlights. The spread option is fun to watch. It allows athletes to do more overtly athletic things on camera. It's only going to take one effective spread option athlete to create a franchise sensation.<br /><br />I could be wrong. However, in any event, my interest in NFL football is a lot higher this year because of this experimentation. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out with the Dolphins and Pat White.Indivisionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08205715455844930815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-36365745977097450852009-07-11T15:14:20.422-04:002009-07-11T15:14:20.422-04:00Outstanding article. Hinton wrote a great post ove...Outstanding article. Hinton wrote a great post over on Dr. Saturday on your point about the inadequacies of current camerawork.BourbonCatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-58328103520701696372009-07-10T11:46:04.392-04:002009-07-10T11:46:04.392-04:00Nice post, Chris. I think the read option will ha...Nice post, Chris. I think the read option will have more of a place in the pros with the likes of Tim Tebow coming in and with the talent already in place (VY, Troy Smith, Mike Vick might even make a showing). <br /><br />I don't think it can be ignored. Urban Meyer has said over and over that 2 offenses give defensive coaches the most trouble: the spread and the option. I think those are two relatively easy systems to hang your hat on. <br /><br />The NFL is far better at matching up than the colege game, though. The spread would probably provide only marginal benefit for the majority of teams, especially as defenses adapt. <br /><br />The option is a much tougher sell. The matchup problem is the key here. In college, it is more feasible to sell out the passing game in favor of commiting to the run. In the NFL, the pass is what wins games statistically. And finding personnel who excel as NFL talent in both areas is super rare. Passing defense is premium in the NFL, for one. The West Coast foundation of timing routes is the proven method of winning.<br /><br />That is not to say you can throw out the book on this other stuff. It is simply unproven. I'd like to see more of it in a system form. It just won't work without that level of commitment.Jon Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16087002514994745333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-61969134059628814952009-07-10T10:31:29.283-04:002009-07-10T10:31:29.283-04:00Stan, I'll believe that you've watched mor...Stan, I'll believe that you've watched more Titans games than I have, but I have a hard time believing McNair was mediocre at best. He put up one of the most statistically ridiculous seasons in football history his senior year of college - accounting for 530 yards per game and 53 TDs. Yes, he did it against 1-AA defenses (and probably with a lot of help from Alcorn's poor defense too), but he also did it with Alcorn's receivers and offensive line. <br /><br />Was he the best QB in the NFL? Maybe not, despite a co-MVP award. But mediocre is a bold word.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02178230449052059046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-74975061430499628172009-07-10T09:47:41.874-04:002009-07-10T09:47:41.874-04:00No joke. This is based on living in Tenn, watchin...No joke. This is based on living in Tenn, watching McNair's entire career and noting how limited he was as a QB. I can't recall ever seeing him hit a hot read. He was below average throwing deep routes on time into the tight spaces that constitue "open" in the NFL. Even in 2003, Jeff Fisher noted that McNair still needed to get a lot better at reading defenses and coverages.<br /><br />McNair always relied on his legs and his strength to buy time and take care of unblocked blitzers. He bought time until he found a wide open receiver (often his TE hooked up in a seam or open because of the run threat when he scrambled) or he could run. He relied on it in college and never made the adjustment to the mental side of the game. But scramblers/running QBs get hit a lot more often and he took a lot of punishment leading to injuries.<br /><br />The guy was incredibly tough and played with pain, but without his legs to buy time he was a mediocre passer at best.<br /><br />stanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-32067099481915853692009-07-09T14:47:21.161-04:002009-07-09T14:47:21.161-04:00"Look at the Titans in 2003. They had an awes..."Look at the Titans in 2003. They had an awesome pass protecting O line and a very good defense. Billy Volek and Neil O'Donnell (with three days practice after spending the season retired) both played better than McNair."<br /><br />Is this a joke? I really hope you don't think that just because their completion percentage and QB rating were marginally better (in one game) each that they played better. Talk about small sample size...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-85904248979193718712009-07-09T13:50:47.369-04:002009-07-09T13:50:47.369-04:00Stan - that second comment hits the nail square on...Stan - that second comment hits the nail square on the head.Aaron Naglerhttp://www.cheeseheadtv.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-75627617872766975812009-07-09T12:14:31.316-04:002009-07-09T12:14:31.316-04:00Also, I don't think you can discount the speed...Also, I don't think you can discount the speed of the defense excuse. There is a reason that Reggie Bush, Rocket Ismail, Dante Hall, Desmond Howard types are far less effective in the NFL. The field is smaller because of defensive speed. <br /><br />It's tougher to hit home runs. Offenses are loathe to try things that result in a drive-killing loss because the homerun potential isn't there. It's tougher to get to the corner. Much of the innovative stuff has more lateral run threats.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01575178552426939685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-31905347741528050442009-07-09T12:04:34.446-04:002009-07-09T12:04:34.446-04:00Chris,
There are some other points that need to b...Chris,<br /><br />There are some other points that need to be made -- the NFL, unlike HS and college, isn't about just being happy making the playoffs. With American pro sports, it's first or nothing. And the coaching consensus is that winning the Super Bowl requires a great passing QB. There aren't many exceptions. So they aren't interested in stopgap measures which might help a bad team pick up more wins, but may not lead to a legit Super Bowl contender.<br /><br />I've always felt that a losing team with a mediocre QB would be far wiser to pick up 3 journeymen QBs rather than try to hit the lottery with an expensive draft pick. The money would be better spent on the O line and defense.<br /><br />Look at the Titans in 2003. They had an awesome pass protecting O line and a very good defense. Billy Volek and Neil O'Donnell (with three days practice after spending the season retired) both played better than McNair. But the Titans had all their money wrapped up in McNair and Eddie George, so they let their best tackle go in free agency as well as their best defenders over the next few years.<br /><br />All that money in a RB was just stupid, but the money in the QB was likely due to the feeling that mediocre QBs cannot win a SB. I don't necessarily agree with that consensus, but if they do and they aren't aiming for anything but a title ....<br /><br />By the way, off topic, but you might be interested in this stats view of randomness in sports http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=731Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01575178552426939685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-74143879522548334882009-07-09T09:54:19.650-04:002009-07-09T09:54:19.650-04:00An additional thought: I think the author is absol...An additional thought: I think the author is absolutely right about the NFL not wanting people to dig into offense too deeply.<br /><br />That's a change from the old days, too. The league used to be a lot more open in the '60s and early '70s about explaining formations and nomenclature and whatnot to casual fans (I remember some pretty good kid-oriented stuff). Plus, if you ever read Jerry Kramer's <i>Instant Replay,</i> he gives the reader a lot of the basics of Green Bay's offense at the time: formation calls, why plays have the names they have, how Starr would audible (pre-snap calls were single and double-digit numbers, like "3! 88!"; if the single-digit number was the same as the snap count, it was an audible).Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780425923108876647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-45387019538879743952009-07-09T00:07:15.014-04:002009-07-09T00:07:15.014-04:00What about injury reduction/prevention? New schem...What about injury reduction/prevention? New schemes mean new risks. As a coach it's possible you might hit on some serious success trying something new only to find that it doesn't work so well once a few of your key players are left on the sidelines. <br /><br />Know unknowns vs. unknown unknowns and all that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-89555873732299865932009-07-08T22:31:59.096-04:002009-07-08T22:31:59.096-04:00Very nice post. I'm going to re-read it in det...Very nice post. I'm going to re-read it in detail.<br /><br />I have a vague recollection that the Patriots were messing with the wishbone with Jim Plunkett and just about got him killed. Anyone else remember that, or is my memory faulty?<br /><br />The other thought I have relates to your "DNA lottery" comment. It's only been the last couple of years that I've seen a few NFL teams pull both guards and run the Green Bay sweep (or something like it). It used to be a lot more common, until defensive players became fast enough to go sideline to sideline and you couldn't get a man advantage at the point of attack with slower, less athletic offensive linemen.<br /><br />I miss the Run and Shoot...such as it was in the NFL, anyhow. I've got Tiger Ellison's <i>Run and Shoot Football: Offense of the Future</i> on my bookshelf, given me by one of the sons of my old line coach...<i>that</i> is the real Run and Shoot. My last year of football (1976) I played bantams (freshmen/sophomores, 140-lb. weight limit), and we ran it (motion right, Walkaway Fancy right on two, heh heh).Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780425923108876647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-39286107946777359662009-07-08T20:54:47.475-04:002009-07-08T20:54:47.475-04:00How much of it is just that there are 32 NFL teams...How much of it is just that there are 32 NFL teams against ~100 college teams and even more High Schools? More coaches to experiment, more teams with odd talent mixes, more opportunities to be strange.MTRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-17932471755011943022009-07-08T19:20:25.988-04:002009-07-08T19:20:25.988-04:00Chris,
The Jets used to play around with some opt...Chris,<br /><br />The Jets used to play around with some option stuff when they used Brad Smith as a QB in the Mangini years. In Mangini's second year they used him for an entire series against the Patriots in Foxboro. Leon Washington went for about 50 yards on a pitch early in the series, then Smith missed a few reads and ended up throwing a pick. Phil Simms was doing the color commentating that day and railed about how the failure of the series was proof that the option could never work in the NFL and how it is a college offense. Additionally, in the book Gang Green by Gerald Eskenazi who was a Jets beat writer for many years, he claims that Holtz attempted to install the split back veer with the Buckey brothers who he coached at NC State. Eskenazi predictably lambastes Holtz for his "college ideas" that would never work in the pros and certainly not in NYC. <br /><br />I once sat in on a lecture given by Mike Pettine who was at that time a "defensive quality control assistant" for the Ravens and is now the Jets DC. Pettine gained some fame for his role on a MTV show when he was a high school coach in Pennsylvania. Anyway, during his talk he said numerous times that the biggest difference between preparing the defense in HS vs the pros is that in HS it is much more difficult. Why? Less time, more variation. You will face Triple, Run and shoot, Wing T, Power I, etc from week to week, whereas in the NFL, "everyone is pretty much doing the same thing." Furthermore, to amplify your point about matchups, the main thing the defensive staff in Baltimore was doing was making sure that 52 stayed clean. <br /><br />Anyway, great post as always!Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15424731469215454004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-18596161822588580422009-07-08T18:53:12.927-04:002009-07-08T18:53:12.927-04:00It's not just the hash marks, rule differences...It's not just the hash marks, rule differences such as one foot instead of two for in bounds, clock stoppages and how a player is down factor in as well. For example running the ball with a 1:30 left to go isn't as risky in college because of the clock stopping on a 1st down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-77509775175986538542009-07-08T18:30:06.246-04:002009-07-08T18:30:06.246-04:00Bruce,
His success at the college level was not r...Bruce,<br /><br />His success at the college level was not really the point. It's his background that matters. His time spent in college influences how he builds his offense hence furthering the "incest" idea.Tylernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-8065282927891870202009-07-08T16:34:06.670-04:002009-07-08T16:34:06.670-04:00the poster who commented on the hashmarks is corre...the poster who commented on the hashmarks is correct. they need to divide the field into thirds and that would lead to more interesting ideas. the field needs to be widened by 5-10 yards as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-23239072795236563042009-07-08T15:49:16.004-04:002009-07-08T15:49:16.004-04:00The speed argument is more difficult to discard, t...<i>The speed argument is more difficult to discard, though I think for now we can ignore it. On the one hand, the idea that the defense is faster suddenly dooms all these schemes common to college seems bizarre considering that the offensive guys are (or should be?) faster too. Thus, relatively, there is no speed advantage.</i><br /><br />Maybe, maybe not. What if there is a scarcity of guys who are fast and can tackle? A scarcity that manifests itself, not at the NFL level where there is a need for 800 defenders from various birth years, but at the college level where there aree many more spots and only four years of recruits that can fill them.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07465013255057574351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-61731795764069500952009-07-08T15:49:09.435-04:002009-07-08T15:49:09.435-04:00One obvious difference between college and pro is ...One obvious difference between college and pro is that the field looks different -- the hash mark rows down the middle of the field are farther apart in college. Does that allow more variation in the offense by allowing more lateral movement in relation to the placement of the ball at the beginning of the play? Correlation is not causation, but like I said, it's an obvious difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-43290708827816422922009-07-08T14:48:44.549-04:002009-07-08T14:48:44.549-04:00Dave, great comment. You'll notice that there...Dave, great comment. You'll notice that there was a lot less parity in the NFL before the salary cap, which is also the last time we saw the Run and Shoot at that level. Parity has given us homogeneity.<br /><br />But... the Run and Shoot never really went away, it got assimilated into the "NFL offense." As Chris wrote, this is probably what will happen to the wildcat too.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02178230449052059046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-53703708596262890042009-07-08T14:43:18.708-04:002009-07-08T14:43:18.708-04:00The Detroit Lions. Nothing to lose?The Detroit Lions. Nothing to lose?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com