tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post4520398592992300834..comments2024-03-13T03:27:50.582-04:00Comments on Smart Football: The Shotgun, The 'Gun, and the Shotgun Spread OffenseChrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07204245083374821812noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-74633681624460611222008-04-16T06:12:00.000-04:002008-04-16T06:12:00.000-04:00Chris: Some comments and tidbits.First, Pop Warne...Chris: Some comments and tidbits.<BR/><BR/>First, Pop Warner's 1906 innovation, the direct-snap single wing, took some ideas he had been using even earlier and adapted them to the new rules promulgated in 1905. Direct snap football was, as you point out, about power and deception first, but soon embraced passing as a potent part of the attack.<BR/><BR/>Next, there have been some great innovators in the direct-snap passing game -- Ray Morrison at SMU, Leo "Dutch" Meyer at TCU, and an extremely neglected one, Gene Ronzani with the early 1950's Green Bay Packers:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="" REL="nofollow">http://savefile.com/files/1204143</A><BR/><BR/>Finally, a link to the shotgun version of my Wild Bunch offense which I've been working on recently -- I've married an innovative play series from semi-spread single wing, Dr. John Ward's half-spin counter series, with the Fly Sweep series from shotgun:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="" REL="nofollow">http://www.savefile.com/files/1507569</A>Ted Seayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311385177075772697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-37271496902053560772008-02-18T22:39:00.000-05:002008-02-18T22:39:00.000-05:00Dear Chris, Very nice work, did you consider Dutch...Dear Chris,<BR/> Very nice work, did you consider Dutch Meyer(TCU - late 40's/early 50's) or Howard Fletcher (Northern Illinois early 60's)as part of your spread history ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-38065919231348181702008-01-13T21:08:00.000-05:002008-01-13T21:08:00.000-05:00The Chargers used the old fashioned shotgun today ...The Chargers used the old fashioned shotgun today in their playoff game. Gates lined up shallow off G or behind him.<BR/><BR/>I see why in game time. When he's at TE the line can shift over or the LB to take away the strong lead he provides.<BR/><BR/>On the inside behind the G he can lead the run to the inside or outside. So the D can't do the most common tactic for stopping the strong lead(slant) and if they commit inside the TE can still lead out wide like a pulling G.<BR/><BR/>Having a G stay inside and the TE lead can make the ILB/MIKE stay home or commit inside.<BR/><BR/>A nice wrinkle to use, on occasion, it was really effective to the short side since it gives you two run gaps to choose a lead from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-46504710366944272112008-01-13T13:12:00.000-05:002008-01-13T13:12:00.000-05:00BTW, Green Bay used that Rockne shotgun look at ti...BTW, Green Bay used that Rockne shotgun look at times. Favre had a TE motion to the backfield to lead as a short FB to the offset side.<BR/><BR/>It was a different look and it seems to set up some items, that extra shallow blocker was killing line stunts on the interior so the T could really widen and set up a pocket for deep sets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-89855780927906488032008-01-08T12:31:00.000-05:002008-01-08T12:31:00.000-05:00The pistol offense is one I faced. It works better...The pistol offense is one I faced. <BR/><BR/>It works better from two back, I'll tell you that much.<BR/><BR/>We still got to it a lot, I won't discuss much of how at this time.<BR/><BR/>Had they used better passing tree progressions it could have been rectified for the most part.<BR/><BR/>Establish a slant early so the passes get out fast and the edge blitz can be limited.<BR/><BR/>Several pro and college games this past week teams showed a heavy A gap blitz if the QB stayed under center. The solution was to check into a shotgun. Don't let it be the sole way to respond, but do develop effective groupings and formations around that concept.<BR/><BR/>Force their guys best fit for blitzing and running to stay in coverage, then that downhill pistol concept can work wonders if your halfback can develop a sense of acceleration and get that handoff down pat from a quick gun.<BR/><BR/>That's why the Pistol works better from two backs IMO. You can change the direction of a run on the go, if both backs read straight ahead their first step and the QB has command of his ability to improvise.<BR/><BR/>The concept is the structure, the player is the intangible factor.<BR/><BR/>The team we faced didn't have a great running QB, but he was very tough and I thought the two back pistol could work provided they found early and effective counters to an aggressive D like ours. <BR/><BR/>They ran a deep I pistol, we stopped it. Teams began to copy our style.<BR/><BR/>What is crucial to developing success is emphasis upon fakes and blocking. They can't see where the ball is if you do it right. Think of a veer initial read.<BR/><BR/>Then the depth of the pistol back gives you a way to widen out to the flat around the edge rusher going after the snap catch point.<BR/><BR/>Since you have two backs the spread can still work its magic effectively in terms of protecting the passer, or you can go slot and force the coverage to declare quicker in similar fashion, and still set up big plays on the traditional slow draw I lead to the strong side if they get over the a bit too end quick like we did and your lead blocker is solid like theirs was. It was never run on us effectively or even really tried, the pass rush never let them establish a need to play in coverage to sell the draw.<BR/><BR/>Passing weapon at TE, spread it out, split him off the formation, or go to a base look and basically h-back the te. Even better with a slash at slot, you can motion him under C and run the straight full I option.<BR/><BR/>Run TE, read his side of the field like a solid downhill run, set up the backside a crossbuck off one of the two backs(front back on the run for two tight or an interior dive/trap similar to veer plays, deep pistol on the classic stretch/iso read where he simply keys a free shoulder or turned blocker backside.<BR/><BR/>Then you develop true play action. Off a trapping look on a blocking H back, run block TE, or iso lead off the TE standing up five yards off the T.<BR/><BR/>You can still widen one of those backs out, max protect both, or develop screens off the good spacing a deep back provides.<BR/><BR/>The pistol's best item is that it can catch certain DB into a lull state of watching the backfield too much. We tried to press that from an initial point on top of the route with good success. <BR/><BR/>Other teams would get caught at that more often, but that relied upon establishing the run. It's quite easy to slide protect or kick out with a true lead I blocker. The offset pistol I works wonders there, we were able to get to the handoff point so much it gave them trouble but if you truly set a formation all strong and go that way it can work.<BR/><BR/>Develop your slide and protections, your run blocking on down looks off tackle and straight on man blocking ahead. Perhaps line up your best pull blocker where he can work best off that overload/offset I pistol so he can counter the weak rush. That's how we killed the pistol, blitz off the edge especially weakside. Having a great trap blocker who can even lead out screens, it can really limit that backside pursuit.<BR/><BR/>A good 2 te, 2 back set can work that pistol if you have true big time WR who requires constant double teams. And with 2 TE you can match your run TE to one side and your split TE/h-back to the other.<BR/><BR/>Motion tends to make pistol success more effective from what I've seen of Nevada's one back set. Use it with greater run emphasis in an I offset pistol.<BR/><BR/>There's still another set of concepts to work in off a classic formation with the pistol. Very similar to the T and classic shotgun post you've shown in the article.<BR/><BR/>The pistol concept can really higlight a great playmaker at QB. A management/distributive type of QB can also work it in if you arm them with protections, counters, and screens. The spacing of the formation is a big part of the concept. Learn ways to limit the other's team's ability to play in space past the line of scrimmage to your side. Develop effective ways to burn their most aggressive moves. Once they play on skates a management QB can pick and choose and nickle-dime teams death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-52304995396815777092008-01-05T15:47:00.000-05:002008-01-05T15:47:00.000-05:00Thanks, this was a great article. I don't know abo...Thanks, this was a great article. I don't know about other people here, but it made me wonder about the origins of the triple option and the option game in general.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-91654927279398289652008-01-03T13:32:00.001-05:002008-01-03T13:32:00.001-05:00Sorry if that looks jumbled.Sorry if that looks jumbled.Rock Throwing Peasanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18055039190856496814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-52918284567423094502008-01-03T13:32:00.000-05:002008-01-03T13:32:00.000-05:00I always I think Nevada runs an interesting shotgu...I always I think Nevada runs an interesting shotgun formation. The RB is three yards or so behind the QB. Gives a certain amount of flexibility. I always want to sit down and watch it. Never get the chance, though.<BR/><BR/>Anyone else have the chance to see/study it?Rock Throwing Peasanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18055039190856496814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-86415880831008228162007-12-27T02:19:00.000-05:002007-12-27T02:19:00.000-05:00A lot of teams run from a shotgun the very first t...A lot of teams run from a shotgun the very first time they show it in a game these days at pro and college levels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-36913768508400117402007-12-24T14:11:00.000-05:002007-12-24T14:11:00.000-05:00Great article! I'm a former triple option coach. ...Great article! I'm a former triple option coach. Tony DeMeo . currently head coach at University of Charleston in West Virginia started as a Triple Option coach in the Wishbone, was one of the early Flexbone coaches and about 8 years ago(?)went to Shotgun and ran Veer from it. Very good if not great offensive coach with his belief in a balance between Triple Option running game and the passing game. Hed would be a great source for your research on the Veer and the Shotgun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-62088414442923953952007-12-23T19:48:00.000-05:002007-12-23T19:48:00.000-05:00Anonymous,And how does that change what Northweste...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>And how does that change what Northwestern did against Michigan? Would it be an effective article if I wrote that the triple-option was completely ineffective because Nebraska got crushed by Miami in the National Championship game? Of course not.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07204245083374821812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-42871449984464711452007-12-23T18:10:00.000-05:002007-12-23T18:10:00.000-05:00You mentioned the 2000 Northwestern team that put ...You mentioned the 2000 Northwestern team that put up 54 points against Michigan, how did Northwestern do against Nebraska that year in the Alamo Bowl? 66-17 Nebraska.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-80977705058818637652007-12-23T04:42:00.000-05:002007-12-23T04:42:00.000-05:00The shotgun met the West Coast Offense when two gr...The shotgun met the West Coast Offense when two great players were given the formation in their pro careers.<BR/><BR/>John Elway had the shotgun and spread as his main scheme with Dan Reeves. He made Super Bowl appearances and Championship appearances. His team lacked other items and could not get over the hump, so coming coaching changes along with personnel led to the integration of his schemes.<BR/><BR/>Mike Shanahan came back after a several years with the West Coast Offense that his coaching tree made famous with the San Francisco 49ers.<BR/><BR/>He had some things already established that he could build on as an assistant(quarterback coach) to Denver during some Elway years. Elway had amazing stats and efficiency with the shotgun, and playoff wins. This could be used to develop the timed routes of the WCO Shanahan had with his Niners experience as OC for three seasons. All of the timing and sets could be implemented with his WCO items and made into deeper reads and progressions, Elway's arm and mobility helped that even more.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The scripted offense, using deeper sets and the same timing urgency famous for the WCO, made his team the best first quarter scorer in its heyday.<BR/><BR/><BR/>His running game is quite celebrated, using the cut block to slow backside pursuit so additional lanes develop to give a single set back multiple keys. <BR/><BR/>Without a lead block to key teams can or may over pursue, the line technique prevents the penetration that a one back set should be susceptible to, as linemen hesitate when knee level blocks are used.<BR/><BR/>The zone set makes it a bit easier to sell some play action, a back can hit the hole quicker and the short set for those three step routes works right with it.<BR/><BR/>That comes from under center.<BR/>Just about the time you'd expect a defense to feel this kind of tactic the shotgun gets used. Now the QB can get the snap and set up or back on three counts and still hit the timed route.<BR/><BR/>Then DB who watches the backfield too much can get sold the slant-go. They're used to slants and quick outs, hooks to move the chains that have room to work from the big arm Elway could display.<BR/>The foe gets caught looking in, the passer will take it over from there.<BR/> <BR/>From the shotgun run a back can still run zone reads in similar ways. Talented halfbacks can use the jump step to reset their feet in combination with an explosive cross step. The run and shoot Oilers and K Gun Bills used that best. The deeper set from snap sells the screen much easier.<BR/> A deeper handoff gives the angle to allow skill adjustment, provided the ball gets secured instantly. It develops like a draw play, and causes defensive hesitation.<BR/><BR/>The other coach who used the shotgun to add with what the WCO does is Mike Holmgren. Like Shanahan, he believed in a big running game, using explosive Dorsey Levens when his team was at its peak output in terms of balance. <BR/><BR/>His quarterback Bret Favre is on his way to the Hall of Fame, a gifted and gritty athlete. Put a wideout on his team, they can become a name player or develop signature moves because of Favre's arm, some quick completions, and the protection key with deeper shotgun sets for accurate timed routes.<BR/><BR/>Original WCO routes seemed to get out of breaks quicker, going the three to five yard break, passes could then stay in the air less time and get to the target's hands fast so yards after catch could win the game.<BR/><BR/>With the strong armed QB using the shotgun, the timed route could get a bit deeper and this meant that spacing could work to greater advantage. Isolation routes to one side could be used and the front side could still be a variety of crossing routes and clearouts.<BR/><BR/>The best item to use for helping pre snap reads today is the hand signal for a snap. The QB needs to be really demonstrative on two and three signal fakes to try and determine what the rotation could do. Before and after motion could only help that as well out of some sets, preferably no huddle or scripted starts where there' time to do it.<BR/><BR/>So three and five step sets still work for timing from the shotgun. The release point is different.<BR/><BR/>I've seen Favre use a seven step set once off the shotgun, it resulted in an incompletion but arguably could of had an interference flag thrown. He used about 60 yards of air on the pass as well. His WR couldn't hold on, and he was hit while throwing by a DB who was spying the back.<BR/><BR/>The line was looking for big guys who could take a QB out to block and the back staying in just missed the guy or assumed the ball was gone. Sherman was coach at the time. Had the back made his block Favre could have perhaps put even more on the ball to get it there, to lead the man more, though no waiting on the ball was involved.<BR/><BR/><BR/>It was deemed too risky, I've not seen it sued since. Only a few arms could even make such an item usable.<BR/><BR/><BR/>So if you prefer quick routes, rubs, kickscreens, set the shotgun shallow or step up off the snap.<BR/><BR/>Medium reads under zones three and five sets on down and distance, screens can work good with either read and teams screen well behind blitzes as a favorite counter(IMO something the pistol needs to implement more).<BR/><BR/>Deep seven step sets can be used, only to the screen or deepest route(787,all go,etc.) combinations and the most powerful arms, or to sell screens vs. teams with poor awareness on edge. I've sent suggestions to call plays in that way at prior times to friends, but including the protection concerns with it they appear to have become scared of its use.<BR/><BR/>More on the pistol and how to better its use it on the weekend, enjoy the Bowl Games this season.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-21653448457956569492007-12-22T20:05:00.000-05:002007-12-22T20:05:00.000-05:00There's some more insight to where the sotgun is a...There's some more insight to where the sotgun is at in these times and how it was assimilated within the vaunted 'West Coast Offense' that has dominated the sport.<BR/><BR/>Then there a new way to add two unique concepts out there together for a new look, coaches here use or have seen the system.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, adding to it with this can take the new schemes to an entirely new level.<BR/><BR/>We'll discuss that in depth soon also...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-38935341253620816182007-12-21T18:25:00.000-05:002007-12-21T18:25:00.000-05:00Corrected. Thanks!Corrected. Thanks!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07204245083374821812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15377771.post-48081794588098643162007-12-21T16:55:00.000-05:002007-12-21T16:55:00.000-05:00Great stuff, as usual. One nitpick: I'm pretty su...Great stuff, as usual. One nitpick: I'm pretty sure the term "quarterback" originated from how _far_ back he played, not what percent of the time he was in the backfield. Quarterback, halfback, and fullback were all rugby terms long before they were football terms: the quarterback lined up a quarter of the way back, the halfback half-way back, and the fullback the whole way back.Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05987789426843540503noreply@blogger.com